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Started by pwhodges, October 29, 2010, 08:41:33 PM
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Quote from: Jonathan Lane on October 31, 2010, 04:40:02 AMThere is some information that one of the advisors to the church prior to destruction of the organ was Allen Organs.
Quote from: Jonathan Lane on November 01, 2010, 01:24:26 PMThank you Eric. And I'm just waiting for Manders to remove the thread, they have a habit if its in the least bit controversial!
QuoteStephen Best I just heard why the Queensbury TRACKER organ was destroyed: it was because of the wiring. The organ was arcing and it could have burned the church down. That made the instrument such a huge liability that it couldn't be given to another church. Honest to goodness -- I couldn't possibly make this up. :-/15 hours ago · Comment · LikeUnlike * * * o Mari Reive what? 15 hours ago · LikeUnlike o John Jurgensen Couldn't it have been rewired at the offending place(s)? 15 hours ago · LikeUnlike o John Jurgensen Meanwhile, all the pipework has been thrown away. 15 hours ago · LikeUnlike o Lori Bennett Meszler They don't have electricians in Queensbury? 15 hours ago · LikeUnlike o Agnes Armstrong ... must have been all that electric key action! 15 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 2 peopleStephen Best and Zachary Uram like this. o Cody Mead Absolutely unbelievable.... a shame. 15 hours ago · LikeUnlike o Sarah Bach ahhhh I see.... 15 hours ago · LikeUnlike o John Jurgensen Even if it was all electric key, I find it very difficult to believe that every single connection would be arcing. 15 hours ago · LikeUnlike o Stephen Best All those tracker action parts had serious electrical issues. OMC OMG OMG. (Shaking head in disbelief!) 15 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading... o John Jurgensen They should've told them that you can't run the hair dryer AND the organ blower at the same time. 15 hours ago · LikeUnlike o Stephen Best Read this carefully: this was a TRACKER ACTION organ, a MECHANICAL ACTION organ. Does everyone "get it" now? 15 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 6 peopleLoading... o Ed Kemp in an early morning post from reliable source in the Albany diocese: "And no, the pastor has no shame. The "safety" concerns are bogus." 15 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1 personZachary Uram likes this. o Stephen Best We're told that the pipework (Stinkens and Letourneau) was all trucked back to Connecticut, neatly packed in pipe trays, so that it could be thrown away there. That kept the church from having to deal with recycling issues. (That reminds me -- I have a bridge for sale. Any takers?) 15 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 3 people3 people like this. o Rees Roberts What's more of a liability issue is all of the hot air coming out of the preachers mouth. 15 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading... o Thomas Dressler Wikipedia: "A lie is a type of deception in the form of an untruthful statement, especially with the intention to deceive others, often with the further intention to maintain a secret or reputation, protect someone's feelings or to avoid a ...punishment or repercussion for one's actions. To lie is to state something that one knows to be false or that one does not honestly believe to be true with the intention that a person will take it for the truth. A liar is a person who is lying, who has previously lied, or who tends by nature to lie repeatedly . . ."See more 15 hours ago · LikeUnlike o Thomas Dressler Catholic Encyclopedia: "But if the common teaching of Catholic theology on this point be admitted, and we grant that lying is always wrong, it follows that we are never justified in telling a lie, for we may not do evil that good may come: the end does not justify the means." 14 hours ago · LikeUnlike o Thomas Dressler Also Catholic Encyclopedia: "St. Raymund . . . allows that others teach that a lie should be told when a man's life is at stake." 14 hours ago · LikeUnlike o Thomas Dressler wonders whether his lifelong love of playing tracker organs has been much more dangerous than he ever thought. :) 14 hours ago · LikeUnlike o Stephen Best One can't be too careful. Those old style organs don't have proper grounding. :-) 14 hours ago · LikeUnlike o Rene Marceau Unless there was electric stop action, the ONLY other need for electricity was the blower! It may be an over simplification, but examining the wiring and the blower could have averted this tragedy! 14 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading... o Stephen Best @Rene: No...the outcome was predetermined. I'm sure there are other "justifications" waiting in reserve. 14 hours ago · LikeUnlike o Rene Marceau Thanks, Stephen! Just a little slow on the upbeat! 14 hours ago · LikeUnlike o William Hubert Is this electrical issue from Foley Baker as well ? Actually there was electric stop action at least in regards to the combination action i.e electrically moved the stops on or off. I don't know if it was with a linear motor or electric pneumatic mechanisims however I did't see any of that in the dumpster. Or the useless worthless blower or the wooden keyboards that no one would want. 14 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading... o Nancy Long unplug and call an electrician? If all else fails, put it on Ebay to the highest bidder and by a keyboard for every choir member with the profits. 14 hours ago · LikeUnlike o Rees Roberts Actually Stephen, those old trackers are quite prone to falling out of the loft. St. Ouen's fell out last year. 13 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading... o Bill Miller What"s the problem?? We all know that tracker organs have miles of DCC wire and that's a fire hazard... right? <grin> 13 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading... o Elizabeth Jones Well, Stephen, Stephen, Stephen. How reliaable is your information again? strictly hearsay...strictly hearsay...that appears to be a huge problem here. 13 hours ago · LikeUnlike o Zachary Uram whoa 12 hours ago · LikeUnlike o Brian Fahey Lets see, a tracker might have lights for the music rack, and another for the pedal board. Certainly the disco lights in the chamber are turned off unless being tuned. That leaves.... The blower. Wow, really sparks my interest. 12 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading... o Elizabeth Jones Stephen just told me this info came from a friend of his who had emailed the organist. She is not an expert on the organ and I'm sure she wasn't expecting her personal experiences and opinion on the organ to be shared with the world, or to be poked fun at for that matter. It is heresay. 12 hours ago · LikeUnlike o Leonardo Ciampa Friends: my only response to this is: Happy Reformation Day! This morning I did the first movement of Bach Cantata 80 at my church, during the service. I'm sorry, but I said all along that this priest was not going to be reprimanded ONE I...OTA for any of this, and now, based on the latest information, I believe this even more strongly. With so many little boys to fondle, and such little time, why do any of us believe, for a second, that any cardinal or bishop is going to concern himself with a lost Open Diapason or Krummhorn? It's over; the battle is lost. My only consolation ... actually I have two of them: the Lutheran Church, and the Episcopal Church. Those are the two institutions that give me hope that good liturgy and good music are not dead.See more 11 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading... o Norman Selby Is there any room for legal action to be taken against several parties? 10 hours ago · LikeUnlike o John Lauter Can we start a letter writing campaign to the archdiocese to get this nutcase priest reprimanded? The organ could have been sold and used elsewhere by a congregation that values such an instrument. About this organ: I know it was a tracker--was it a neo Baroque screecher with two fundamental stops and 15 mixtures or was it a nicely balanced, later sound? I am not a fan of trackers, but this instrument did not deserve this treatment. 6 hours ago · Like
QuoteFact: this was Mr. DeMarse's opus 7; he offered to build the organ free of charge if the church paid the cost of materialFact: about 400 contributors underwrote the cost of this organ; another 180 children each bought one pipe; about 40 volunteers assisted in organ builder as neededFact: the organ was unfinished at the time of its dedicatory recital, but was later used successfully for a recital as part of an AGO convention, and was in regular use until Mr. DeMarse's tenure as the church music director endedFact: there was a problem with sagging facade pipes; these pipes had been built specifically for the organ by well known firm; proposals to remedy the problem ranged from repair to replacementFact: only the firm that ultimately destroyed the organ proclaimed the instrument was beyond salvationFact: the direction of the church's music program changed significantly after Mr. DeMarse left as music directorFact: another church in the same diocese wanted the organ and was prepared spend whatever was required to remove it, store it, and reinstall it; that church had already been in contact with a fine organ builder regarding the projectFact: there were 48 ranks of pipes, made mostly by Stinkens, some by LetourneauFact: there was some extraordinarily fine craftsmanship in this organ; even the keyboards were personally made by Mr. DeMarseFact: the recommendations/opinions of David Vredenberg, Diocesan Organ Consultant, were ignored; Mr. Vredenberg has made this fact public knowledgeFact: only the firm that removed the organ condemned it as beyond savingFact: members of the church that wanted the organ, and the organist who had been asked to demonstrate the organ for them, were denied access to the building to see the organ; the following day the dumpster was delivered; the day after that, the organ was destroyedPerhaps the rest is conjecture. But that much is absolutely true.
QuoteThe following post is from the Diocesan Organ Consultant, David Vredenburg. It speaks for itself:"The whole affair is an outrage. The pastor took a personal offense to its builder (and the former director of music of the parish) and vowed to get it "trashed and dumped on the builder's lawn" from the start of this whole process. His mind made up, he proceeded to ignore the evaluations of 5 reputable firms that lauded the instrument highly and side with the one firm he convinced, it seems, to trash it verbally."He then presented his cooked figures and manipulated facts directly to the Chancellor of the Diocese, bypassing me as the organ consultant (he "didn't trust" my evaluation, since I hadn't sided with him) and obtaining her and the chief financial officer's permission to proceed with the instrument's removal. He was not, however, given permission to "trash" it or prevent its being examined and obtained by any interested parishes."I suggest you express your outrage directly to the bishop: The Very Rev. Howard J. Hubbard, D. D.,The Roman Catholic Diocese of Albany, 40 N. Main Ave., Albany, NY 12203-1422."It is, in any case, too late for the organ. I understand it has been totally disassembled, and divided between the dumpster and the Foley-Baker truck. I shall never trust that company again, since it is with their slanted collusion that this has come to pass.David A. Vredenburg"
QuoteThank you Eric. And I'm just waiting for Manders to remove the thread, they have a habit if its in the least bit controversial!
QuoteQUOTE (Clarion Doublette @ Nov 1 2010, 01:54 AM) *I hope this thread remains.... the freedom of speech surrounding this issue is important. ... In my opinion I still think there were some serious misjudgements made in this case.Hi allI've been asked to look at this topic, and I think that it should remain (ie not be deleted) but I will delete the remaining quotes of Sue Wright's e-mail. If you want to know what it said, please refer to "Justadad".Rachel MawhoodModerator, Mander Organs
Quote from: Steve Best on November 02, 2010, 07:12:36 AMAlthough the Allen Organ Company was listed as one of "consultants" on a "position paper" circulated by the church, the Allen Organ Company was NOT, I repeat, was NOT involved in the destruction of this organ. The first time that the Allen Organ representative knew that company was listed by the church was when I contacted him yesterday.
QuoteThe removal of the organ was completed last week by Foley-Baker Inc., which will send the pipes to a hazard waste facility due to a lead issue
Quote from: NonPlayingAnorak on November 02, 2010, 05:28:16 PMWhat really pisses me off is the following:QuoteThe removal of the organ was completed last week by Foley-Baker Inc., which will send the pipes to a hazard waste facility due to a lead issueA seemingly reputable 42-year-old firm dealing in new pipe organs and restoration of old ones, giving such a negative assessment and seeing that the pipework is destroyed?